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Post by Fickle81 on Dec 30, 2005 5:04:29 GMT -5
There is,of course,a great seemingly age old debate on whether or not the actual animal killings in Cannibal Holocaust crossed the line.
My thoughts? Honestly? Who gives a rat's ass? Theres so much other crap you can fault this piece of shit movie for than the real animal killings...like its nausiating score,stupid characters,horrid acting,tacked on half ass attempt at a social message,and utterly absurd character actions (like standing there and filming your fiance being raped and ripped apart and not doing anything to help her,or better yet,not getting the fuck out of there).
Don't hate the movie for really killing animals...hate the movie for being a badly written and badly made piece of shit.
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Post by Fickle81 on Jan 1, 2006 7:21:56 GMT -5
Hell no...it makes you above the movie's controversy so you're able to see what a bad movie it is...
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iamlegend
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Post by iamlegend on Jan 1, 2006 17:50:07 GMT -5
terrible movie, in every way. the killings are just to give this POS some actual shock value, because without those this movie would never be talked about at all.
did they cross the line? have a cheeseburger and then say "yes". my point is that even if they did its basically the same thing as alice cooper ripping open a chicken onstage. its just shock value in place of things like "good music, talent, or in the case of CH in place of a good movie in any way"
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Post by dudeclassicman on Feb 23, 2006 23:08:17 GMT -5
Before giving an opinion on some obscure movie I haven't seen, (actually, I have no interest in seeing Cannibal Holocaust, but I am interested in seeing another similarly controversial film “Men Behind The Sun”) I want to take this thread in a different direction to ask why some people can't fight the urge to be total dipshits? How are these assholes even functioning at high enough a level to breathe?
Whoa, whoa, whoa there, chieftain. Look out, somebody has an opinion. Look here, you better have a reason why Alice Cooper is talentless exactly and it better be a reason other than you don't like him simply because his music isn't your preferred bag of shit to listen to. Who the fuck are you again, exactly? 'Cause if you don't have a reason why Alice Cooper is talentless other than “ooh boy, he fit into my nifty little keen Cannibal Holocaust analogy so well and I don't really care for that “70's vietnam shit music” ooh, Pearl Jam is so spiffy” this is some of the dumbest shit I've seen on these here boards (or those other boards) in a long, long while.
Quite frankly, you calling Alice Cooper talentless reeks of you throwing silly putty-like shit against a wall just so you could make some cute little analogy. While I understand what you were going for “in theory”, by using Alice Cooper as your example, your actual analogy sucked.
So let me enlighten you since you couldn't be bothered to pull your head out of Eddie Vedder's ass long enough to realize some of this shit.
First of all, Alice Cooper (nor did any members of his band) didn't actually destroy the chicken. As the story goes, somebody threw the damn thing on stage; Alice for whatever reason threw it back into the crowd thinking it would fly away because it had wings; (I guess he'd never been to a fucking farm) members of the crowd proceeded to rip it apart, of course. When Alice was talking to Frank Zappa over the phone the next day or a week or so later or whenever, Zappa told him the story making the rounds was that Alice had actually been the one to rip it apart. When Zappa found out what actually happened, he told Coop to bullshit everybody and just go along with the story that he had actually destroyed it and not a rabid crowd. “There is no such thing as bad publicity” and all that good shit.
Got it? Number two, it was just a fucking chicken. So who cares? There's tons more shocking legends in the rock world than a chicken getting killed.
Just to name a few:
-Mick Jagger eating his own puke on stage. (Probably attributed to Ozzy as well.) -Rod Stewart ingesting so much semen he had to have his stomach pumped. -Marilyn Manson and his merry band of faggots practicing fellatio on each other backstage before gigs just to pass the time. Lemmy getting blown on stage while playing. (Well, that one's actually supposed to be true.) -Some punk rock idiot named G.G. Allin I've never even fucking heard of (and I'm sure I never would have had he not did all this sick ass shit) defecating onstage, consuming his own shit as well as throwing his feces at the audience, and of course regularly brawling with said audience. I have no idea how terrible his music actually is. It's probably fittingly enough pure shit. Because with what shocks today, if Marilyn Manson, for one, was actually crazy enough to do any of this shit, he'd be bigger than the Beatles. -Ozzy pissing on the Alamo. -Ozzy and Motley Crue engaging in a particularly sick game of “can you top this” in a McDonald's parking lot including Ozzy snorting ants then Nikki Sixx having the ingenious idea to piss then go to drink a puddle of his own piss only to have Ozzy beat him to the punch. (Well, it wasn't actually punch, it was piss. And yes, I mean Ozzy drank NIKKI'S piss.)
Hell, when it comes to actually biting the heads off of animals and shit like that, actual over-the-top shocking behavior Ozzy Osbourne is the guy you're thinking of. He, of course, did bite the head off of a bat infamously and had to get rabies shots. I must say, though...... as much shit that ends up fabricated that there is and always has been out there, I wouldn't doubt that the whole “Ozzy biting the head off of a dove at a meeting with record company honchoes” was nothing more than a big hoax and publicity stunt.
Funny that I mention Ozzy because he's a hell of a lot closer to being talentless than Alice Cooper ever has been. Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of both. But Ozzy has always been surrounded by some guitar greats. Randy Rhoads, Jake E. Lee, Zakk Wylde. Alice had some big steroid junkie guy as his guitarist in the 80's, Kane Roberts. And it showed. Plus, I'm fairly sure Alice is much more involved in the actual songwriting process than “mush for brains” Ozzy. If anybody's a product of being surrounded by great musicians his whole career, it's the Ozzman.
Ozzy maybe had one good song on that last album. I can't even name another song off of “Down To Earth” and I own the fucking thing. (Well, it was a gift.) I can count 4 or 5 good to great songs off of Dirty Diamonds. Dragontown and Brutal Planet had their moments as well.
You could've just used Marilyn Manson (plugged him into your analogy-”shocking behavior/image” all that whether it's actual animal cruelty or not he allegedly perpetrates. But that wouldn't have fit as well with your clever little analogy) a lot easier because his whole shock rock star thing is actually bolstered with weird ass and often times faggy behavior whereas in all actuality the worst Alice Cooper ever did on stage was beheading a dummy of himself. Although Marilyn obviously aped the name and the whole gaunt zombie look from Alice so well. I do actually like a FEW Manson songs to be fair so he's not totally worthless but his quality-to-hype ratio is in the negative. And the difference between him and Alice is that Alice puts on more of a stage show closer to what to those greedy ass KISS fuckers dressing up in bleeding high heel boots (and all that shit) do. Even in the 70's, Alice's image never approached the controversy desperate charade Manson has always been about.
Something else that makes no fucking sense in your analogy: You seem to be somehow suggesting the single or (at least key) thing that popped Alice's career was the rumors of him maiming a chicken. That nobody would have ever heard of Alice Cooper had he “not ripped open a chicken.” Newsflash: who the fuck hears a story about a rock star maiming a chicken and decides “OH YEAH, I GOTTA HAVE THIS FUCKER'S ALBUM” without ever having had any prior exposure listening to the artist in question? Nobody. Not even Goth kids. Well, okay, maybe dumb ass little goth kids. And by the way, here's some news you can use: there weren't packs of little freaky ass trendy goth kids running around to embrace Alice's chicken-killing ways back in the 70's. Also, according to your way of thinking, if just killing a chicken was edgy and shocking enough to be the sole reason for Alice having a career that's spanned 4 decades, then fucking G.G. Allin should've been bigger than the Beatles. Dude ate his own shit on stage after all.
Hallelujah, I have seen the light: Alice Cooper is one of the 10-20 best selling rock artists of all time, to go along with being one of the most respected and critically acclaimed, has lasted for damn 40 years and is currently on a World Tour right now all because he ripped open a chicken onstage damn near 40 years ago. Whoo whee, that shit is rich. You should try bottling that shit and selling it.
All this coming from someone who worships at the altar of Eddie Vedder, frontman of a band that's as bland as an ice-water flavored popsicle. Shit man, I actually kind of like Pearl Jam. But they're only tied for third as third best band to come out of that era. Soundgarden 1. Alice In Chains 2. And Pearl Jam and Kurt Nobrain (he blew 'em all out) get to jockey for third place. Pearl Jam hasn't even put out a record in 5 fucking years. They're probably done. What was their last hit? That “Last Kiss” bullshit cover of on one of those 50's teenage-love-turned tragic songs. Wow, what talent.
Alice Cooper put out a great album last year with Dirty Diamonds.
So unless Alice Cooper, a guy who is one of the most successful rock artists of all time, actually rips open chickens nightly on stage to trick people into coming to his shows I don't know what he has to do with, in common to, or to compare to some piece of shit movie 10 people have ever seen and only ever saw it because of actual filmed animal cruelty. Explain that one to me, smart guy. Considering that 10 people have also probably only heard of G.G. Allin and that the guy did actually do all the crazy shit he's infamous for, you should've plugged him into your clever little analogy. But you had to be the big shot, didn't you?
Now to actually get this diatribe a little back on track, I am actually interested in seeing Men Behind The Sun but since torturing a cat probably was added in as for nothing more than shock effect and therefore totally unnecessary, it wouldn't bother me one iota if even to this day some animal rights whackjob tracked down this film's director and fed him to a dozen rabid pit-bulls. Just to teach him about cutting back on excesses in film-making. Or they could tell the director they were making an edgy documentary on pit bulls and he should be honored to be such a vital part of the film. Or hell just remake “The Ghost and the Darkness” and feed him to some Lions.
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iamlegend
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Post by iamlegend on Feb 25, 2006 16:33:17 GMT -5
wow, such a long post over such a minute and useless point. if you have a problem with me, just say so der, no need to make a post that long about something so totally useless. but hell, i will happily oblige you:
first off, you seem to imply that Alice Cooper didnt use "shock" in his shows, and his sucess was based on his music alone. thats wrong. Alice Cooper is known as the godfather of shock rock. thats just a fact boy, like it or not. hell, i dont even dislike him, but since you seem to wanna draw a debate out over this, lets continue.
i agree 100% the chicken was torn apart by the crowd. but that is still linked to him as much as Ozzy and the bat incident, so its perfectly fine for me to use that when speaking of the shock theatrics he used in his shows, not to mention, the chicken incident is what gave them the idea to go into the shock direction. will you agree that notwithstanding the chicken, AC still employed shock into all of his shows? as an example: guillitines, mock hangings, live snakes, blood, etc et al. he is known primarily NOT for his music, but for his theatrics as well (see KISS, GWAR, Marilyn Manson, etc). so just because you have a big hard on for the guy, that doesnt change the fact that he is a "shock rocker" and will always be remembered as such.
pretty much that covers the alice cooper side of this. most of what you said isnt wrong, and it doesnt even fall out of line with how i feel, you just want to be on the opposite side of me sooo bad it hurts, and you had to make up a massively long waste of a post on how good AC is musically. in the end i would have to say to you: who fucking cares boy? the original point is "shock for shocks sake" and thats what Alice is known for, not for 40 years of great songs, thats just retarded to claim that. and just because you like them, that really only shows how much they suck. the man hasnt put out a good song in AT LEAST the last 2 1/2 DECADES!
as for all the eddie vedder hate, i would hope by this point its clear that i could not care less what you think about him. if you actually think Alice Cooper is a better singer than Eddie Vedder, thats fine by me, its called an opinion, and some people follow opinions like religion, and they are still wrong as all fuck all. just like you. so cheers to ya der, and GFY eh.
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ite
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Post by ite on Mar 11, 2006 4:09:13 GMT -5
To kill or torture innocent animals for the intent to make a quick buck for a shitty horror movie makes me sick. Just kill fake animals or make it look real but don't actually kill them. How dare they.
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